Frank Zappa Bogart 9

Bob Dobbs is telling Tommy Mars about a 1992 interview he saw where Frank is disagreeing with Einstein about the nature of Time. The interview he is referring to is with "Don Menn" the orginal editor of Guitar Player magazine. Actually Don is with Matt Groening they both ask Frank the questions. Matt is a known huge Zappa fan.

Here is the Tommy Mars transcript and below that is the original Don Menn Matt Groening transcript.

Bob Dobbs & Tommy Mars interview talking about Frank Zappa and his ideas about the nature of time:

This interview is hard to follow because of all the inside references and Bob talks fast. They are referring to how Frank looks at music as "pushing air" and he sees frequencies a little different than everyone else. In fact he sees everything revolving around frequencies. everything is "vibrations." Molecules vibrate. This transcript is just the part about Einstein and Inca Roads.

The transcript is below, in case you didn't see it or you want to view it again before seeing the transcript here is the interview clip-
Zappa disagrees with Einstein Interview



Bob: Did you know that Frank disagreed with Einstein?

Tommy: I wouldn't doubt it. Clue me in on his realm.

Bob: E=MC squared. Space and Time are interchangeable like Mass and Energy in simple terms. Frank in a Interview said I think it might have been that Don Menn thing 1992. I jus saw it on the internet someone quoted it and he goes, "I disagree with Einstein that Space and Time are interacting." He said, "Time is the outer sphere where all things are all happening all at once. The inner sphere of Space is a Möbius Strip." So he re-separates Time, away from Space. Einstein didn't do that, he had them intertwined.

Tommy: He had them intertwined.

Mobius Strip Zappa

Bob: Einstein had them intertwined like they're both components of a Möbius Strip. Thats a very interesting concept and thats' the incredible arrogance and genius of Frank . . ..

Tommy: Hahaha ahh ahhhh

Bob: You guys yeh you built a bomb but so what you got it wrong.

Tommy: blah blah blahaaa

Bob: You got it all wrong, and then when you know that quote it fits within his whole thing of the upper and lower and Time is all Time and its the unknown zone where all things are happening, and the middle zone where UFO's come in, thats' an effect of the modulating of the above and below frequency which is the Time zone where its happening. And then he says thats' what, he had a secular materialist view in a way of psychics, that says someone who's just, zapping, going out of the Möbius Strip of space and zapping into a Time and experience because its already happening. I'm talking about going in a full circle which I like to have in my dialogue. Your opening line was, "Frank was the beyond." Well that was Time and sphere (sphere? what did Bob say?)

Tommy: You know musically uhh . .. .

Bob: And that's why you had to be on time, the wind. The wind factor yep.

Tommy: That's exactly right.

Bob: So, do I rest my case, that was Frank or what. How could a medium, this guy doesn't even know Frank, how could he say that?

Tommy: That's right.

Bob: You know what I'm saying?

Tommy: Thats right. I just want to say, it seems a bit obvious, but to me, quintessentially, Inca Roads, is a tremendous, um, manifestation of that.

Bob: The song?

Tommy: The song Inca Roads, to me,.

Bob: Well you know, Gale, said thats' her favorite song, and Gale, is always talking code I think. She's been around. She's an insider.

Tommy: She's not always talking code, but sometimes she slips out of it.

Bob: Slips out of it … and by, saying…..

Tommy: Did you hear what I just said?

Bob: Well I'm trying to figure out.. She said Inca Roads is her favorite song. Is that slipping out of code?

Tommy: No thats' code.

Bob: Okay so now elaborate why that's real?

Tommy: But here's slipping out of code.

Bob: Oh okay.

Tommy: I don't want to belabor this, because I know we have to move on, I just wanted to say, that number one, Frank was, uh famous for writing mini operas.

Frank Zappa with Bogart 9

Bob: Right.

Tommy: You know what I mean like verses would be analogous to ariaieseses (what the hec did Bob say?) choruses would be analogous to uh reishttighisity.. (what? what did he say?)

Bob: Right.

Tommy: Inca Roads to me is quintessential, it has all of the elements . . .

Bob: Of an Opera..

Tommy: Well I'm saying a song say like Punky's Whips, is a like mini Opera. Brown Shoes Don't Make It, is like an Opera. You know what I mean.

Bob: Inca Roads is not.

Tommy: No Inca Roads is as well, but the point I'm trying to make is that, to me its like the quintessential song of Frank, it has everything there…. stylistically

Bob: In light of the UFO quote.

Tommy: In light of the UFO quote, the whole thing… and then you know like, the Guacamole Queen, you know what I mean, like um.

Bob: It's a question. The results are in question.

Tommy: Some Indians upon a hill you know what I mean, its like

Bob: That's your time, your right…

Tommy: It just came to me as we're talking about this, that I wanted to say that to me, and I'm not talking code, I'm breaking code.

Bob: In other words you just realized why it is, thru our conversation, it is you in a sense.

Tommy: Its the edge of the .. and then you have the glory of, instrumentally, not even a lyric on this.. "wha da dee do due dah dee day uh da do day"..

Bob: Yeah

Tommy: That is, …. look I don't necessarily believe in a heaven or hell but if there is a heaven where everything is peace and pure, that theme embodies it.

Bob: Thats right.

Tommy: And yet it starts off so like uh, you know like -out there

Bob: Right right.

Tommy: Like your landing, you'r landing in.

Bob: You're landing the alien in the unknown.

Tommy: When i first started listening to Frank, that album to me was like the best album he had ever done up to that point, it just had everything, fidelity, substance.. you know like the….

Bob: The latest Technology.

Tommy: Latest technology. and brilliant lyrics, all of the songs were like hits to me, you know what I mean, every single one, it wasn't just there was a cool Zappa song, these were like monstrous anthems these songs.

Bob: And if you think of it, he starts out bizarre. But then if we do find out there is life in other places and there is a UFO if that whole thing is real, then its a shift for mankind where we move into new dimensions, its the happy effect which is that riff you just said that heavenly,,. do it again.

Tommy: I want to reiterate this though, jus the way the structure of the song is, it starts, "Did a vehicle…" lyrically okay. Then you have instrumentally, deedeetteeedee okay an augmentation of that, then you have duhhhuhhdhhh its the same thing its jus gets keeps..

Bob: Different climates or different effects of the other communications.

Tommy: Of the same words. The same words, the same macro .. nutrients you know what I mean, or DNA.

Bob: This is the happy part, what we now know, is the happy resolution of the mystery is in the sound, the happy part you just did.

Tommy: Yeh its instrumental, on the record, its just a Marimba, but obviously when we played it, its like you know its the speed of light,, and everybody wants to play the lick instead of just Ruth. That was another difference between uh. the later band and the early band, is that in the early band it was like the guys didn't want to play the licks man becuz you know like, Frank what are you writing for us, you know what I mean.

Bob: And they couldn't

Tommy: I didn't say they couldn't I would say they would preferred maybe not to play all the hard licks, they were challenged. but for us we were like young Olympians man… it was jus like way harder , harder.

Bob: Yeh harder yeah.

Tommy: Did I give you that story about that part about Jumbo? Where he's looking at me, with the hands out.. thats' like a classic example.

Bob: Now listen, this is, that is, we'll end on this point I guess. I'll give you a big insight about Frank. this morning, becuz the point is -Finnegans Wake is not a book. He has all forms of media, he's trying to paint a movie, and eventually a Television set.

Tommy: Yeah yeah.

Bob: Okay. but Frank is,,, Frank is not a musician .. and he plays tricks on musicians. Your musical conventional training, is….. trying to read it.

Tommy: When a baby could do it.

Bob: Yeh yeh in other words you, he was presenting a path to play a Football play, and you, you fooled him, you said think you knew what I did, get beyond the categories of your self. becuz I'm presenting a sports play. That's what that whole story is.

They are referencing so many things they start out with Einstein and Time and then go deep into the song, "Inca Roads" about a UFO. I thought man we needs a transcript, Steve Vai told me to do it.

I didn't transcribe the last few minutes. The ending where Bob is talking about a UFO scientist examining space debris and she wears different Zappa T-Shirts while she's investigating this UFO material. Bob is developing a Manifesto Thesis. He says Part One is about "Finnegans Wake" and Part Two is how Frank Out-did Finnegans Wake.

I always heard of this famous book by James Joyce, "Finnegans Wake." I never read it. Apparently neither did anyone else, they say it's basically unreadable. It's written in fragments using the most obscure hard to understand references. The theory is that James Joyce was using fragments to "paint" a big picture a movie and then a Televsion set.

Bob's theory is that Frank was doing the same thing, using parts and pieces and using "frequencies" to cause motion to describe a new life matter, and this UFO reseracher is working on that material. Wearing Zappa shirts.

Keep On Truckin Dude

Frank Zappa Meets Bogart 9

Now here is the part of the original Don Menn (and Matt Groening) interview.
The "MG" is Matt Groening, the "DM" is Don Menn.

MG: Frank let's talk about your ideas about time.

FZ: Well, I think that everything is happening all the time, and the only reason why we think of time linearly is because we are conditioned to do it. That's because the human idea of stuff is it has a beginning and it has an end. I don't think that's necessarily true. You think of time as a constant, a spherical constant ...

MG: – in which – – everything's happening all the time, always did, always will ...

MG: So this coffee cup – – Was always full, and always empty –

MG: – and it's always being drunk and it's always being heated – – And it's always being thrown, and the guy was always painting it, and so on and so forth. Everything is always.

MG: Why does this empty cup make sense to me?

FZ: I don't know.

MG: You know what I mean, though?

FZ: Is that a Zen question?

MG: No, why do I go, "Oh, I have already – the cup that I drank no longer appears to be full."

FZ: Well, that's because it is not full at this particular version of –

MG: Our perceptions?

FZ: We're dealing with time in a quasi-practical manner. We have devised our own personal universe and lifestyle that is ruled by time sliced this way, and we progress from notch to notch, day by day, and you just learn to meet your deadlines that way. That's only for human convenience. That, to me, is not a good explanation of how things really work. That's only the human perception version of how this work. It seems just as feasible to me that everything is happening all the time. And whether you believe your coffee cup is full or not is irrelevant. It's like – here's another way to explain it. What something is depends more on when it is than anything else. You can't define something accurately until you understand when it is.

MG: When in time.

FZ: Yeah, when is what. Without the perfect understanding of when, you've got nothing to deal with, see? 'Cause you analyze that cup of coffee a little bit earlier, and it's full. In a few minutes, you'll kick it over, and it won't even exist anymore. The state of the cup is determined by when you're perceiving it.

DM: Which means that the future has already happened.

FZ: Yeah. And the reason why I feel so strongly about this is, you know, this is one of the better explanations for why people can have premonitions, because instead of looking ahead, they're just looking around. You don't have to look ahead to see the future. You can look over there.

DM: That was going to be my next question. What limits our perceptions of other things or other times or the future?

FZ: I think you devise your own limits for your own personal convenience. There are some people who wish to have limits, and they'll invent as many boxes for themselves as they want. It's like, you know, men invented armor. They wanted to protect themselves from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune and so forth. And people do the same thing psychically and psychologically. They build their own armor. They build their own rathole, whatever it is. And they choose their existence. Whether they do it consciously or whether it is helped along by a government or an education system, somebody is helping to shape this imaginary box you live in, but it doesn't have to be there.

DM: Then what are the limits to our being able to understand what the whole purpose of any of our lives is?

FZ: Well, why do you have to? I think that when is a very important thing, but "what the fuck" is also a very important thing to ask. Just keep asking, "What the fuck?" I mean, why the fuck bother? See what I mean? The important thing is, deal with the when. When will open a lot of shit for you. "What the fuck" really makes it easier to deal with it when you understand the when.

DM: You sound like a very mystical but common-sense guy, because you've always talked about the common sense solution as always the best solution to anything, and yet this is very mystical.

FZ: Why is it mystical? Can you understand that when is important? What's mystical about that?

DM: Well, not just that question so much as the idea that time is a Moebius vortex –

FZ: No, the shape of the universe is a Moebius vortex I believe that Time is a spherical constant. Now imagine a Moebius vortex inside a spherical constant, and you've got my cosmology. But when is very important.

MG: How does music composition fit into that?

FZ: It's just something that you do. You know, I can do it, so I do it. You can draw cartoons and so you do it, and you can make people laugh and you do it. And that's what you do. And if somebody tried to keep you from doing it, you'd kill them, wouldn't you?

MG: Yes. See, I judge the universe by pencil mileage.

FZ: That's a pretty linear kind of thing. And the callus on my finger. I used to get that when I wrote with a pen. In fact, this finger right here has a permanent dent right in that bone from just holding that nub of a pen, and going [choking, strugging sound] like with those little dots, and now I get cramps in this arm from holding my thumb like this to do a certain move on the keypad to make the Synclavier do something. But in the larger scheme of things, what's a little nub in your finger or a twisted thumb? So long as somebody gets a laugh out of it, what the fuck?


I will post more context from the
Tommy Mars Bob Dobbs interview.
You can see the whole thing online but
I think its too much for all at once you could choke.
It needs to be broken up to be digested properly.
Stay tuned for that coming soon.
They talk about how Frank is not really
a musician, he's a Conductor.
He uses "frequencies" to push air
into complicated arrangements.

Frank found a bizarre way to get
data (signals) from the
Synclavier, and he uses
this data as "metadata" on each file.
He makes this data audible, turns it
into sounds that didn't exist.
He was fascinated by the idea of
taking a frequency above the audible
range and combining it with a
frequency below to make a new one
that is in our audible range.

Bob and Tommy say Frank is an Orchestrator
in outer space and not a musician.
He's outside above as the puppet master.
He's "tricking" these musician blokes.
And Frank himself is one of
the musicians he's conducting,
all the other musicians, in sorta giant "Play"
that his life's work is orchestrating.
He said there's a little thread that goes
through all his work.

They joke that maybe Frank works for
an Alien General from another planet.
and the Inca Roads song is about coming in,
from the outside and into the
audible world we know.

For today there is more Zappa Einstein.
No not that but what we have here for you today,

is the secret Zappa page.
Not the Black Page, no not the Society Pages
the secret page
right here:-
Zappa Disagrees With Einstein -The Other Page

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Today is the sixth of February in the year of our lord two thousand and twenty four


Mom rolling up Pot

Frank was doing some crazy shit with the Synclavier
Switching the pitch and the timbre and then re-sample it
do some more stuff then re-sample it again.
He just keeps building it, adding more and more moves.
For years. He had 500 files of this stuff. So many
that he had trouble just finding the file again, the
file that he wanted to work on. Even the title doesn't help.

It's too bad Frank didn't meet Ahex Twin. They had a demo in 1991, their debut album came out in 1992. Frank passed away 1993. Ahex twin used a variety of kit, like Zappa always looking for the newest gadgetry.

On Ahpex Twin debut album one of the softwares is called "CDP" Composers Desktop Project. It had no GUI you had to manually type in commands and all the specs individually. Frank used to do this, use Commands in a command line to write the music, note by note. I don't know how they can stand this. I draw with a pencil, pen, mouse, my finger, but if I had to use a command line to explain the pixels numbers geo locations to draw,, I would kill my self. I would jump in front of a train or something that's real quick. I couldn't take it. This is like telling someone to run the Boston Marathon -backwards.

Programmers and people like that they prefer text rather than a GUI, they actually like it. I think its like working on a Farm. After awhile Pig poop and foul smells become normal you get used to it. Maybe I'm just jealous. I wish I could do it. AI can use command lines to far surpass humans. AI has already swallowed up many command line job positions.

Music used to be illegal in Afghanistan. Now we see this in America, the Central Scrutinizer is coming back! Why is music going to be illegal again? Just look at the cover of the Grand Wazoo. Composing warfare composing music its the same kind of algorithm. Once you have it you can plug it into any format.

How can we keep going on inhaling more information? The average person can't.
At a certain point it's counterproductive you hit a wall. Go sit down.
AI doesn't have to sit down, or stop at a wall.

Overwhelming amount of files and information is not a new problem.
What is new is that Frank took it up to 11.5

Turn it up to 11

It's a bit ridiculous, because if it takes you weeks
to create just a few bars or bits of music, you can spend
the rest of your life on a project and not finish.
Every animator knows this. It was way out of control before
digital tools and the Synclavier and before DAW "digital audio workstation"
AI is now in the editing tools.

Movie Studios hire rooms full of people to do just a few seconds
of special effects. They don't even call it special effects anymore.
When I was doing it in Hollywood in the 90's it was
very manuel compared to today. Now we have Bluescreen
and Greenscreen compositing and complicated effects
using one finger right on your cell phone.
I used to be somebody weep weep, I was a
"Special Effects Artist" it was kinda a big deal.

Now you can jus tell it what you want it to do.
You can go get a account with Stable Confusion
and do your own AI animation creations.
It can mimic your facial expressions in real-time.
Yer like your own motion capture person.
Stunning stuff can be had, by you,
at your home studio. Start right now tonight.

The problem is, the problem. I can go learn
to play guitar, by myself, for free. Zappa taught himself to
play guitar. See how easy that is, riite sure
anyone can do it.
Frank Zappa and Bruce Lee are similar in the manner
that they tell you what they're doing and describe
all the people out there who don't do it.
Frank will say dummies whereas Bruce was too polite
to tell you that you're never gonna fight your
way out of a paper bag.

If you had Bruce Lee's speed and power
no matter what martial art you're doing you would
be a dangerous opponent. Then add in Jeet Kune Do
and now you're fuggin James Bond.

Both Frank and Bruce do shit that is way beyond
the average person's means. At least Frank doesn't tell you
the key is keep it simple like The Tao of Jeet Kune Do it says,
"True refinement seeks simplicity"
That's easy for you to say when I can't even start the
engine let alone find the runway let alone
take-off and then actually fly the plane then
you want me to land it too?

Katt Williams was talking about Snoop Dog he says,
"Snoop is amazing he has all these businesses
and Investments and huge projects in TV, movies,
all kinds of media, and he's doing it all while being HIGH."
Katt says, "When I get high I can't even get out of the room."

For Bruce Lee to tell us true refinement seeks simplicity after
he just got done doing two finger Push-Ups doesn't make any sense.
I think maybe that's one of the reasons he got out of his schools,
and teaching, and wanted to use movies.
T o show us philosophy not just
cool Kung Fu moves, that few of us could do.

Early on people thought Frank Zappa was this cranky weird guy
who doesn't like society.
Frank saw himself as almost a Journalist, a conduit.
He would watch the News and then put the gist of it into composition.
He was an Alchemist. Bruce Lee did the same thing. So did Alan Watts.

If you have 42+ hours of extra time you can spare
go thru these Links of research engineer Bob Dobbs interviewing
Frank Zappa and related people and you too
can see and hear the fine details of what I'm talking about,
the crux of the biscuit.

Bob Dobbs Zappa Interview List Directory

Beyond Sound—Zappa's Civilization Phaze III


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

Unpacking Zappa Playlist


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

Zappa's Plot to Reshape Global Entertainment 


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

One of the Reasons


Frank Zappa

Beefheart or Zappa


Bob Dobbs

Bob Dobbs, “A Sample of Frank Zappa Being the Best”


Zappa Sample?

Lyndon LaRouche, SubGenius Show in 1995, UFOs …


Bob Dobbs

Zappa Hour Plus


Frank Zappa

Zappa Interview & 4 wild Mothers of Invention Shows 


Bob Dobbs

iON | Fa-So-La & Frank Zappa


Bert’s iON transcriptions

iON | Masaru Emoto & Frank Zappa


Bert’s iON transcriptions

David Walley, Author “ NO COMMERCIAL POTENTIAL" 1980


40 Years in the Wilderness, Bob Dobbs 

Bob & Frank | 7 November 1984


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

 Zappa Hour - Roxana Flores Larrainzar, Bert Hill & Bob Dobbs


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

Article about Frank Zappa, August 1996


Bob Dobbs Misc Videos, Frank Zappa

Solar Conductor Zappa’s Quadrophrenia Completes Tiny Note Chart


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

Bob Dobbs & Calvin Schenkel, July 1996


Bob Dobbs, Bob Dobbs Misc Videos, Frank Zappa

The Evergreens | Posthumous Frank Zappa Talks To Bob Marshall


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa, The Evergreens

Secrets of the Dog-Root


Bob Dobbs, Bob Dobbs Misc Videos, Frank Zappa, Nigey Lennon

Arthur Kroker’s “Drone Flesh,” Bob, iON & Frank Zappa


Bob Dobbs

Frank Zappa (Student of McLuhan) Interviewed by WCBN DJ Joe Doll


*, Frank Zappa

Bob Dobbs | Dialogue with Zappa Scholar John Corcelli


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

Mae Brussell, Peter Beter, Marshall McLuhan & Zappa with the Evergreens


Bob Dobbs

Bob Talks with Craig Pinkus, Longtime Close Friend of Frank & Gail Zappa


Bob Dobbs

Bob Marshall | Frank Zappa Interview 


Bob Dobbs, Bob Marshall, Frank Zappa

Was Frank Zappa Murdered, chat with Ike Willis


Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa

Frank Zappa Interview by Pauline Butcher


Frank Zappa


Smoothies That Heal Book Cover Smoothies That Heal Book Cover

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